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gentlemen, start your drooling...

by Aardappel_ on 06/15/2006 06:07, 63 messages, last message: 07/07/2006 01:53, 28803 views, last view: 02/16/2020 12:51




So people have finallye started releasing high quality textures with normalmaps on the interweb, so I thought it was time we supported them in sauerbraten.

The above screenshot does bump+spec, and some form of parallax mapping (needs tweaking). Moreover, all this works in harmony with lightmaps, using a system similar to what halflife 2 and far cry use indoors. So soft shadows with per pixel light, hurray!

Anyway, next release will have this stuff in, plus a nice set of textures to work with. And yes, to see any of this, you need a card capable of shaders of course.

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#44: Also

by Ferko on 07/04/2006 04:44

I've made a few normal maps, but i also see a 3rd texture file. Often labled depth and usually black and white. How I make those and/or are they needed?

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#45: ..

by marcpullen on 07/04/2006 16:45

So when is this fancy textures version going to be released for the general public/non-programmer types?

I'm anxious to do some serious mapping with that! :)

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#46: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 07/04/2006 17:02, refers to #45

yup, with the next release :)

all shaders are generic shader 2 model, taken on a 6800u with very basic settings.

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#47: Re: ..

by Ferko on 07/04/2006 17:48, refers to #43

Ok, I've narrowed down the problem. On some textures featuring bump maps look more or less flat when close to it. However when standing at a distance it seems dramatically more bumped. Any idea why I get such poor quality?

Note: I have an x850Pro.

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#48: ..

by Max of S2D [Fr] on 07/04/2006 18:53

Aard, -f can disable shaders.
Will some -X disable the bump mapping ?

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#49: Re: ..

by Aardappel_ on 07/04/2006 19:16, refers to #48

nope... you either play with or without shaders.

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#50: How do you use CVS?

by theButcher on 07/04/2006 23:03

Sorry, I'm really a n00b, but I was wondering how you can use CVS or if there are any tutorials out there for it. I downloaded SmartCVS but I don't know how to use it. Could somebody please help me?

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#51: ..

by makkE on 07/05/2006 00:47

1.Check out -> Manage -> Add

2."Access Method" pserver checked.

Username: anonymous
Server Name: sauerbraten.cvs.sourceforge.net
repository path: /cvsroot/sauerbraten.

click "Next"
leave password empty and click "Next"
next window press "Finish"

Then in the Checkout dialogue (should be still open) select the newly created project, click next

In "chose repository module" check "sauerbraten"

click next. Now enter a local directory where to save it. (just leave all else on default)

click next. and maybe once more.. then it should check out (download the complete repository)

Next time you open smartcvs, sauer project should already come up, and youīll only have to press "get changes from the repository" to check if stuff has changed recently.

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#52: Re: Bumpmapping

by Chaos on 07/05/2006 03:10, refers to #4

I think this is a valid question, as I tried the Nvidia normal map plug-in. It works fine for the normal maps, but I just don't know how to make those blank and white depth maps.

Do I need a different prog or plug-in? Cause my custom textures are ready for bumpville. lol

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#53: ..

by makkE on 07/05/2006 11:07

If you used the nvidia plugin, you should already have a heightmap - the map you made the normalmap from.

Depth map isnīt required, but it adds parallax mapping if you use it.

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#54: Re: ..

by Chaos on 07/05/2006 20:29, refers to #53

I used the original texture to make the normal map. Was that bad? Also, how do I even make the black and white depth map in the first place?

I sorry, I feel like a total noob right now. All this is so new to me.

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#55: ..

by makkE on 07/05/2006 21:18

Donīt worry itīs new to me too.

If you made it from a statically lit texture, it will not be a real normalmap.

The nvidia plugin uses height information (more white=more offset) to calc the normals from there.
If you take a statically lit texture (with shadows and highlights) itīll result in something weird, but not the actual geometry you want to fake.
Imagine a screw, with the highlight on top, and a shadow underneath. The highlight will be levated, the shadow dented in. That wonīt be a round screw..

If you have previously made textures ( all on one image, light,shadows,colour), like I have here, youīll need to do the following:

1. Rid your texture of all static light/highlights and shadows, only global illumination can be left in.
Look at the exsisting textures as an example. This is tricky sometimes, some textures wonīt work without some effort..

2. Create the height map. Youīll have to do it by hand, unless you are making your textures from high poly models (then you can get a heightmap rendered from it).
So if you work off an image alone, youīll have to make the height map by yourself.
Simply desaturating your texture can work on organic stuff like rock (when you can afford the highlights/shadows to turn into diffrent fake geometry, but this is a cheap tradeoff). It wonīt work on industrial/tech stuff too well.

3. Render the normal map from the height map, usin the nvidia filter.

4. Make the specular map (if needed). Sometimes you can get away from deriving it from the colour map, though it needs touch ups more often than not. In other cases youīll have to make it from scratch.

The other way of creating normalmaps is to model the texture in high poly, and render the normalmap and height map from it, then adding colour and spec (as if youīd skin a model).

Itīs not much more work from making "traditional" textures, since the effort is simply spit across maps, itīs just a very diffrent workflow.

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#56: Bumpmapping

by theButcher on 07/06/2006 00:59

I tried it and it works pretty good... but I noticed that things look flat. Like on aard3b the ground in the middle looks flat. Is it supposed to be that way, or I am I missing wome driver or something? I've got a Nvidia GeForce 6800 on Windows XP. Do I need something extra, like that nvidia plugin you guys were talking about (I looked that up, apparently its for The GIMP)?

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#57: ..

by Gilt on 07/06/2006 01:24

I'm probably being patronizing here... but bump maps don't actually affect geometry; they only change the way the textures are lit (ie: 'shadows').

So if you look at them closely in-game, especially up close, the illusion will disappear and you'll realize they're still flat.

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#58: ..

by makkE on 07/06/2006 01:30

The texture set used in aard3b is not using height maps, so the normalmaps start to look flat at steep angles. Thatīs a normal limitation of normalmaps. In the map "bumptest" the textures use height maps as well, and they keep their illusion of volume longer due to that.

If itīs the rock you mean, the effect is just not too noticeable. A rock isnīt shining like metal, so the specularity on it is low. Youīd notice the effect of the normalmaps more in a map with lots of rocks, it will have a subtle effect of interacting with the light, unlike a metal texture, where itīs more noticeable right away.

Afaik thereīs a normalmap filter for gimp too, but itīs only used in creating them. (if thatīs what you mean).

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#59: Thanks makkE

by Chaos on 07/06/2006 03:40

Your reply was incredibly helpful, and my textures look better because of it.

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#60: ..

by pushplay on 07/06/2006 06:56

So at what point do the fancy texture settings get folded into default_map_settings.cfg?

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#61: Re: ..

by kurtis84 on 07/06/2006 18:00, refers to #60

I'm wondering that too pushplay, but for now, I've just copied the texture lists of aard3b, and aard3c.cfg to my map cfg.

BTW, Makke, good tips there about normal/heightmap creation from a basic texture. To add a bit about this -
I use photoshop to rid the texture of the "painted on shadows". I just do a reversed light render on it, that usually does the trick. Next, I'll convert it to greyscale, but keep it a RGB image. Before I use it for the normalmap filter, I will increase or decrease the contrast of the greyscale image, depending on how much height and depth I really want. Keep in mind that too much height or depth in the normalmap can make 100% black shadows in-game...which will ruin the effect.

This heightmap can be used as a specmap, but will most likely need to be darkened a great deal in most cases.

To sum up...it's just as easy to make a new texture, as it is to convert a basic texture. Either way you do it though, the work is worth it. I cannot get over how this ability make this game look so much different ( for those of us with video cards to do it right ).

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#62: ..

by makkE on 07/06/2006 20:11

Can you explain "reversed light render" a bit? Sounds useful. You use a certain filter? Or do you copy to a new layer, desaturate, invert and then some blending option?

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#63: Re: ..

by kurtis84 on 07/07/2006 01:53, refers to #62

in photoshop, under filters/render/lighting effects. It just applies a light in whatever direction you want. I say reversed light render, meaning I just cast light up the texture, instead of down it. The result is washed out a bit, but thats why I used contrast adjust on it.

I don't have any examples of this, as I was just tinkering around a bit to see how tough it would be to create normals for existing textures. The obvious best method is to create from scratch the diffusemap ( basic texture ) with no shadowing effects.

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